tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post2963401606229988535..comments2023-09-26T03:53:17.142-04:00Comments on Pentimento: There and Back, Part 10: Four-Armed Gods and One-Eared RabbitsPentimentohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-83207411013417631732010-03-08T21:27:41.070-05:002010-03-08T21:27:41.070-05:00A parable is not a riddle. A parable is a little s...A parable is not a riddle. A parable is a little story, the meaning of which is founded upon an analogy. It is not meant to confound the listener, but to explain something to him. A parable confounds only he who refuses to hear its truth because he is attached to an opposing falsehood that he cannot let go of.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-20486570419446026452010-03-08T21:21:38.432-05:002010-03-08T21:21:38.432-05:00Yes, he sometimes spoke in parables. But on those ...Yes, he sometimes spoke in parables. But on those occasions when we are granted direct participation in his own explication of a parable, we have no trouble at all understanding his meaning.<br />That said, I wasn't alluding to any of his sayings or parables above, but rather to his doings--his acts: the Way and the Truth and the Life.<br />I am, btw, more a sola scriptura Protestant, than not. I say this in the sense that no interpretation of sacred scripture can possibly be valid that is not ultimately founded in the words of the scripture. Interpretation must never be allowed to make "black" mean "white." (cf. Orwell, George)Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-28399621857508698732010-03-08T21:12:18.136-05:002010-03-08T21:12:18.136-05:00You run the risk of sola scriptura fundamentalism,...You run the risk of sola scriptura fundamentalism, Rodak. Christ Himself had to explain repeatedly that He spoke in parables.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-37718511275820409292010-03-08T21:04:19.196-05:002010-03-08T21:04:19.196-05:00Yes, we must never make the mistake of taking the ...Yes, we must never make the mistake of taking the words to mean what they say.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-15082306362316151352010-03-08T20:32:42.916-05:002010-03-08T20:32:42.916-05:00Thank you, Otepoti. I love the goldfish analogy.
...Thank you, Otepoti. I love the goldfish analogy.<br /><br />And Jim, I love your paintings too.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-18885949241798087012010-03-08T19:48:03.759-05:002010-03-08T19:48:03.759-05:00Hi, Rodak, Pentimento,
Er, why are we talking of ...Hi, Rodak, Pentimento,<br /><br />Er, why are we talking of Christ in the past tense?<br /><br />He is Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. <br /><br />We proddies, and especially we Reformed christians, are fond of saying, of the Old and New Testaments, "The New is in the Old contained, the Old is in the New explained."<br /><br />I think in separating out Christ's words and deeds during His incarnation, you may be making the same sort of the mistake that we proddies do when we print Red Letter Bibles, with the words Christ spoke on earth in red.<br /><br />Christ the Creator speaks throughout the Bible, and throughout His creation, and He says, emphatically, "Families are good. I thought of them."<br /><br />If He seems sometimes to say otherwise, it's only because He wants the goldfish to get out of their bowls and into the ocean.<br /><br />This analogy goes far enough, I think, but please don't lean on it!<br /><br />Jim Janknegt, I just had a look at your wonderful paintings. You are very gifted, praise God.<br /><br />Nga mihi i te Ingoa o to tatou Ariki, ko Ihu Karaiti, ki a koutou katoa, <br /><br />OtepotiOtepotihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12315317923902957130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-87275705616105251872010-03-08T18:01:26.143-05:002010-03-08T18:01:26.143-05:00I guess that I don't want to sidetrack this th...I guess that I don't want to sidetrack this thread onto a discussion of the family life of Jesus. Suffice it to mention that, beginning with his staying behind in Jerusalem without prior notice to his parents when he was just a boy (and then showing no contrition when they had to come back for him), and going right on through the time he left his mother and his brothers standing outside the hall, and asked those who informed him of their presence without "Who are my mother and my brothers?", that the family was not of great importance to him. <br />At least some of his disciples were family men, with responsibilities that he bade them simply walk away from to follow him. I can think of no instance in the Gospels where Jesus stresses the importance of the family in any way that would balance these things out.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-69071362608544398412010-03-08T17:50:22.980-05:002010-03-08T17:50:22.980-05:00When I was an episcopalian we used to get the &quo...When I was an episcopalian we used to get the "the real miracle was sharing" preached at us and it always made me kind of sick. I ended up doing a painting of these little bird demons flying out of the mouth of the wolf in wolf's clothing (hey, who needs a disguise anymore) saying all of the crazy things I heard preached all those years.<br /><br />http://janknegt.eccwireless.com/art/A_JJanknegt_WolfInSheepsClothing.jpgJim Janknegthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02971229049336038270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-75437312871903034142010-03-08T17:26:50.921-05:002010-03-08T17:26:50.921-05:00It never occurred to me that Jesus had a low opini...It never occurred to me that Jesus had a low opinion of family life, though it's clear that St. Paul did have a rather low opinion of marriage. I believe that Jesus wished to emphasize beyond a doubt that God is more important than anything else on which we place any importance. It has certainly been tradition for millennia in Judaism and in both Eastern and Western Christianity that the soul is tempered in the fire of family life. Since consecrated celibacy is a tenable path for so few, we sort of have to take what comes and work with it or around it towards God. The peace and consolation that are possible in single life consecrated to God are just not when you live in a family, except for at rare moments. <br /><br />But most of all, it's God's love that makes demands of us.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-12701791215139018442010-03-08T11:45:43.713-05:002010-03-08T11:45:43.713-05:00I don't believe there is any such love
You ma...<em>I don't believe there is any such love</em><br /><br />You may be right. But that may also be why Jesus apparently ranked family life so low, and why St. Paul considered marriage to be the lesser of (at least) two poor alternatives (not to say "evils").<br />It is not easy (as you say) to allow one's partner to be as one wants her to be, in the mode of her being as she wants to be. And this difficulty must, of course, be worked out equitably in both directions. <br />And when courage finally fails, the escape clause is so often some variation on the theme: "I have come to realize that I will never be able to make you happy." <br />Yes. Well, that's true enough.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-3319995366242743182010-03-08T11:29:28.831-05:002010-03-08T11:29:28.831-05:00E, not for nothing, but I am going to quote your o...E, not for nothing, but I am going to quote your own (very accurate) words about Betty Duffy back atcha: you're a freaking amazing writer. I hope you do it.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-44225905804690167102010-03-08T11:12:46.427-05:002010-03-08T11:12:46.427-05:00I don't believe there is any such love, i.e. o...I don't believe there is any such love, i.e. one that makes no demands against the authentic existence, as you say, of its object. Love makes demands of us constantly, and that's what makes it so hard.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-85430216330850006842010-03-08T11:12:46.428-05:002010-03-08T11:12:46.428-05:00+JMJ+
And I'd like to write it, too, but you ...+JMJ+<br /><br />And I'd like to write it, too, but you set a high standard for all of us! (I may end up writing about writing it . . .)Enbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-86164274050641082372010-03-08T09:59:12.566-05:002010-03-08T09:59:12.566-05:00Yes, I think that you're quite right. But the ...Yes, I think that you're quite right. But the reality of this is that often the "love" that we are struggling to maintain is exposed as something else, altogether. Those who find that True love, the love that makes no demands <em>against</em> the authentic existence of the love object, are blessed, indeed. Many (if not most) of us are not so "lucky." Alas.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-53267869537990376542010-03-08T08:29:08.621-05:002010-03-08T08:29:08.621-05:00I love that song (and that album).
But I'm no...I love that song (and that album).<br /><br />But I'm not sure that real love, which is nothing like what I ever thought it was (and I thought I knew all about love) is incompatible with an authentic existence. In fact, I'm fairly sure that an authentic existence is all about love, though not necessarily romantic or partnered love.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-77058385937924922872010-03-08T08:01:38.662-05:002010-03-08T08:01:38.662-05:00I don't know about the relative virtues of bou...<em>I don't know about the relative virtues of bourgeois vs. bohemian love</em><br /><br />I don't mean to suggest that love is, or can be, either "bourgeois" or "bohemian" in its nature. But the person looking for, or trying to share, or desperately trying to nurture love is very much up against it when love (as attached to a specific object) reveals itself to be an obstacle to otherwise living an authentic existence. <br />There is a Joni Mitchell lyric that I find particularly penetrating:<br />"Go to him, stay with him if you can, but be prepared to bleed."<br />[It has occurred to me that she could have been talking about Jesus there. But she wasn't.]Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-43002285987552745142010-03-08T01:26:12.638-05:002010-03-08T01:26:12.638-05:00Thank you, Pentimento, for this. It is among the ...Thank you, Pentimento, for this. It is among the best things that I have read in a long time. Thanks be to God for His graces to us.Craighttp://cburrell.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-60280166133264472502010-03-07T14:10:49.246-05:002010-03-07T14:10:49.246-05:00Exactly. And that preternatural calm in the face ...Exactly. And that preternatural calm in the face of anything became a constant characteristic (at least until I got married and we had a bunch of kids :-)Bill Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17764579160852643673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-45948273464428413632010-03-07T13:33:49.698-05:002010-03-07T13:33:49.698-05:00Well, isn't it true, Bill? Not that you'd...Well, isn't it true, Bill? Not that you'd wish anyone to become inured to suffering and chaos, but it helps to have a compensatory technique when the sh*t hits the fan.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-90918080963573383792010-03-07T13:01:22.650-05:002010-03-07T13:01:22.650-05:00"As someone used to crushing disappointment, ..."As someone used to crushing disappointment, I remained calm and collected." You just explained to me how my parents' divorce and subsequent nonsense shaped me decades ago. Thank you.Bill Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17764579160852643673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-33787870945501554432010-03-07T12:36:07.612-05:002010-03-07T12:36:07.612-05:00I'd like to read your story, Enbrethiliel.
I ...I'd like to read your story, Enbrethiliel.<br /><br />I don't know about the relative virtues of bourgeois vs. bohemian love, Rodak. I suppose it's case by case. But my friend was point out what he believed was the primal male fear.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-48173030033021698012010-03-07T12:08:30.714-05:002010-03-07T12:08:30.714-05:00+JMJ+
This is a beautiful story, Pentimento. You ...+JMJ+<br /><br />This is a beautiful story, Pentimento. You make me want to write about my own process of conversion--just so I get it all straight for myself, because I don't think I ever have.Enbrethilielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03414765854670926854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-73174474170419025242010-03-07T11:57:36.607-05:002010-03-07T11:57:36.607-05:00Interesting. My experience has been more that wome...Interesting. My experience has been more that women demand that you be the fraud you're afraid of becoming and refuse to be. <br />Maybe, if I'd remained in a Bohemian setting, rather than taking on bourgeois responsibilities...? I ended up losing everything I'd tried to preserve by "selling out," anyway.Rodakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077919085157653816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-54266462236884986602010-03-07T09:41:04.746-05:002010-03-07T09:41:04.746-05:00Thank you, Arkanabar, and welcome here.Thank you, Arkanabar, and welcome here.Pentimentohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17161146891505294679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5554498168264477884.post-63819455591726505002010-03-07T09:36:10.689-05:002010-03-07T09:36:10.689-05:00On the strength of this post, and the one to which...On the strength of this post, and the one to which the Western Confucian linked last Friday, I am adding you to both the blogs I follow, and the blogs to which I link.Arkanabar T'verrick Ilarsadinhttp://arkanabar.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com